Curse

Imbalanced · Feb 27, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I used (or wanted, more) this build last BWE for PvE:

E/Me

Aura of Restoration
Immolate
Fireball
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Searing Heat
Energy Drain (Elite)
Power Drain
Ether Feast

I got level 15, and didn't get to finding sweet spots (like an extra second burning for Immolate?) on the attributes because i knew i wouldn't be 20, so i'm not so sure how to spend my points. I was getting Fire high, with Inspiration and Energy Storage a bit lacking (something like 9-7-5, can't be bothered to check if that's possible^^).

Only spell i didn't get was Energy Drain, wich i filled up with some other Fire/Inspiration spell all the time wich never satisfied me enough

Thought it went fine, it's also easy and straight forward to play this build. I had a reason to take most of these skills, i.e. Fireball over Phoenix because i don't like to be in melee range, because of Phoenix' big recharge time, wich i can't use with the recharge of Searing Heat too and without something spammable as Flare.

Anyway, i think this build can be improved but i'm not sure how myself, so suggestions are welcome. I found Power drain a bit awkward to use often, because i had to stop casting (except the Immolate every five seconds) and concentrate on the spell my enemy is casting. On the other hand, i have this spell because of the huge energy return, wich means i'm probably dry and won't be casting much. Also because i never got Energy Drain, it may be there's too much dedicated to Energy return, and too little to dish it out...
Ether Feast saved my life some times, but i'm not sure if it justifies a skill slot, and if it doesn't i don't know what would be good to swap it with.

Hope this answers the original posters question a bit.

I_Hate_You · Feb 27, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovi the Monk

[COLOR=DarkGreen]i believe u misunderstood me, for this is not a ludricras statement, i was just looking at casting times...

fire elem - fireball = 90 damage 3 sec cast

air elem - lightning orb, lightning strike, another air spell(1 sec caster) = 80 + 40 + 80, 3 sec castin time(now i know its hard to do all that in 3 secs, but think of it as by the time fireball hits u theres like 1 sec so i think u could get those 3 skills off by the time u r hit by firebal.)

now if a fire elem started using flare, theres 3 hits of like 45 damage, but no matter what, the 3 hits from the 1 sec casters over on air = more damage. now if u cant figure that out, ure hopeless. no offense.

so basically the only reason to go fire would be for AoE damage, but in taking in the most damage to a target the air elem would kick the fire elem arse.[/COLOR]

Yeah thats technically right, then you would be down for serval seconds and it would take up the majority of your skill list. Fireball is a single spell (and splash damage), and there are other skills.

Dovi the Monk · Feb 27, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

true it takes up 3 slots of my skills, but still is is superior damage in a targeting world. fire elem can hit more then one person, but all those skills cast longer and do the same or a bit more damage then the air magic, so in terms of damage per sec the air elem is superior...

the only reason for going fire is for AoE damage and defense, like my fire elem/monk

i use fire spells such as lava font, pheonix, etc and get good defense, plus my healing, works pretty well

I_Hate_You · Feb 27, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovi the Monk

true it takes up 3 slots of my skills, but still is is superior damage in a targeting world. fire elem can hit more then one person, but all those skills cast longer and do the same or a bit more damage then the air magic, so in terms of damage per sec the air elem is superior...

the only reason for going fire is for AoE damage and defense, like my fire elem/monk

i use fire spells such as lava font, pheonix, etc and get good defense, plus my healing, works pretty well

unless you throw in mark of rodgort... Fire is also an excellent focus fire killer due to flare and immolate and mark of rodgort. Nothing like going Carry on some one to kill them ridiculously fast

Ensign · Feb 27, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imbalanced

E/Me

Aura of Restoration
Immolate
Fireball
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Searing Heat
Energy Drain (Elite)
Power Drain
Ether Feast

The only skill that stands out as needing to go is Searing Heat. That has no business being run over Firestorm, particularly in PvE where the enemy is perfectly willing to stand in it. Searing Heat costs more, it doesn't last as long, and it does the same, sad damage. Firestorm all the way - I personally wouldn't even bother learning Searing Heat in its current state.

I've personally never needed both Aura of Restoration and Ether Feast, but if you're soloing or taking a lot of damage, then sure, grab them both. If one of them needs to go, drop Aura of Restoration, as it'll never save you if you're taking heavy damage.

Power Drain is even better in PvE than PvP. The reason? Because enemies are completely predictable. You know those Lightning Drakes are going to cast Orb every seven seconds, just like Flame Savants are always going to open with Searing Heat. You know exactly what's coming, so getting the interrupt in isn't a matter of fast reactions, but of planning.

At level 15 GLE, Energy Drain (or Tap) and Power Drain might be needed to power everything, but as you level up the Drains will keep getting better while energy costs stay the same - meaning that you can drop GLE and not miss it at all. I'd keep it in for the time being, though.

Immolate and Fireball are your workhorse, fast recycle skills. They're going to be on your PvE bar permanently, so might as well get used to using 'em.

Phoenix can and should get worked in - it is outstanding in a PvE environment where you will get mobbed. At worst it's just a slightly weaker Fireball to toss in on an off cycle.

If you feel the need for a spam skill, though, use Conjure Flame. Coupled with a good wand, that'll dish out damage comparable to what you'd get from Flare, and it doesn't even cost you any energy. Plus it makes using Power Drain easy.

In sum I'd run something like:

Conjure Flame, Immolate, Fireball, Phoenix, Fire Storm, Energy Drain, Power Drain, Ether Feast

With Conjure and Phoenix being the first to get cut for more healing or energy management.

Peace,
-CxE

Dovi the Monk · Feb 27, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Hate_You

unless you throw in mark of rodgort... Fire is also an excellent focus fire killer due to flare and immolate and mark of rodgort. Nothing like going Carry on some one to kill them ridiculously fast

[COLOR=DarkRed]so lets see here, im not a dumb player, so this is what i would do.

u cast mark of rodgort i go to my disrupter skill - gust. bam theres goes mark of rodgorts. then u hve to wait 20 secs to re-cast. next say hello to lightning surge, followed by lightning strike, o and b this time u will just be getting up. but wait the effects of surge will then take effect and ure knocked down again. follow up with a lightning orb. next comes another 40 damage from javelin, and by this time ull prob be up and finally casting a spell, but of course 80 + 40 + 40 + 80 adds up. 240 damage and ure just beginnin to attack. o and by this time my skills will be rechargin and almost done, strike will prob be done, so what ever u cast will hve to = 280 damage to make r health equal, since anohter 40 the that 240 is 280, make that another lightning orb and theres another 80 damage, if needed there lightning javelin to finsih u off almost, by that time im sure a few hits from my wand and youll be dead. note if u did get mark off somehow it may be a bit differnt but still i would prob win the battle note this was with my old offensive elementalist/mesmer, although seeing how much it could do makes me rethink my choice, maybe ill make it again.[/COLOR]

Imbalanced · Feb 27, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Ensign, thanks a lot.

I realize now AoR was indeed not really needed most of the time, so not taking Conjure Flame instead sounds stupid now, especially because i used my wand attack pretty often. Same for the Searin Heat thing... I think i just wanted to be a little different and overrated burning too much =) Also i like the icon (don't know if that's good for an argument though). But Fire Storm is indeed better.

I had Phoenix in this build for some periods and as you seem to make it i will take it back later. Don't see much reason to leave it out now considering i'll get a lot of mana boosts in those 5 levels and didn't had much energy problems so far.

I think i'll go for that exact skill list you wrote next BWE or retail.

I_Hate_You · Feb 27, 2005, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovi the Monk

[COLOR=DarkRed]so lets see here, im not a dumb player, so this is what i would do.

u cast mark of rodgort i go to my disrupter skill - gust. bam theres goes mark of rodgorts. then u hve to wait 20 secs to re-cast. next say hello to lightning surge, followed by lightning strike, o and b this time u will just be getting up. but wait the effects of surge will then take effect and ure knocked down again. follow up with a lightning orb. next comes another 40 damage from javelin, and by this time ull prob be up and finally casting a spell, but of course 80 + 40 + 40 + 80 adds up. 240 damage and ure just beginnin to attack. o and by this time my skills will be rechargin and almost done, strike will prob be done, so what ever u cast will hve to = 280 damage to make r health equal, since anohter 40 the that 240 is 280, make that another lightning orb and theres another 80 damage, if needed there lightning javelin to finsih u off almost, by that time im sure a few hits from my wand and youll be dead. note if u did get mark off somehow it may be a bit differnt but still i would prob win the battle note this was with my old offensive elementalist/mesmer, although seeing how much it could do makes me rethink my choice, maybe ill make it again.[/COLOR]

This only works in one possible scenario: Old West stand off and everybody starts going on the count of three. And you assume I start with mark of rodgort or even use it + you assume you havn't previously used gale or arn't casting some other spell when i decide to set you to burn + you assume you can pull stuff off with MATHEMATICAL precious, unless your a bot thigns arnt going to go off uber easily. I could easily make up an asinine scenario with a random number of picked out spells that lets me win as well. its all theoretical and your basis for "I AM UBER AEROMANCER!!!11eleventeen" and me being "HAHA PUNY FIRE MAGE" is based on an entirely made up scenario you have biased to be slanted in your favor.

In short, stop making up slanted scenarios, I don't care. And you monk looks like Keanu Reeves

Freyas · Feb 27, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Dovi- the problem with making scenarios like that is that it's easy to provide a counter- a Mesmer that I've been playing recently will tear that air elementalist to shreds, without you getting off more than one spell.... ever. You can never count on getting a 1vs1 against another player, and if you do(2 people left in a pvp battle), it's pretty random whether it's someone who you're better equipped to deal with, or if they're able to tear you apart. Lightning Elementalists can be nice against single targets- the knockdowns you have there provide some good disruption. However, you'll easily lose out to a character based around disruption as opposed to damage, just as you'll often be able to kill characters based around damage with little or no disruption. Not to mention, you're not going to be able to pull off that string of lightning attacks more than once or twice before sitting around for a long time to regenerate your energy- during which time your opponent has free reign for making your life miserable.

Dovi the Monk · Feb 27, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

[COLOR=Blue]freyas[/COLOR] - [COLOR=DarkGreen]i was more pointing out the air elementalists skills in a one on one fight. fire elementalists make excellent gvger because they can attack groups and a lot of there skills have a splash type effect. but your mesmer counter could also take him out, so either way i was just pointing out in general combat against each other in are own private battle, say the arena i would easily take him out. and with high energy storage i could prob pull of my string of attack atleast twice which would kill someone in the 1 vs 1 combat. unless it was of course a mesmer. after that it doesnt matter becuase i was more or less taling about a 1 vs 1 battle against his pyromancer.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]i hate you[/COLOR] - [COLOR=DarkGreen]once u cast a spell u can click more then one in the order u want them to cast. the skill kind of looks like it is moving around and then once the other spell is done castin it goes to that skill, so i could pretty much get this combo off pretty close to prefection using that system. o and since i was talking on a 1 on 1 combat it was not really a slanted scenario. even if u did get your mark on me i could prob hve gotten off gale before u hit me with your first flaming skill, and then id just do what i was going to do, only your attacks would cause catching me on fire. and onto my monk, are u just out of reaalistic things to do with this subject against me to badmouth my avatar, lol. it came from a gwg wallpaper so i guess they made it look like reeves to u, idk but i find that was an incredibly stupid thing to say,

[/COLOR]

Imbalanced · Feb 28, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

I mean lightning orb does same as fireballe, with same energy cost, but 1 sec cast time and only 5 sec rechargen i think

Doesn't Orb has a 2 second cast?

Ensign · Feb 28, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imbalanced

I think i'll go for that exact skill list you wrote next BWE or retail.

Well, remember that you always need to swap skills around depending on your exact circumstances. Phoenix is an absolute must have when soloing, for example, but is less important when you have a couple of Warriors on your team. Same with Aura of Restoration - it's stock drops dramatically when there's a Monk around to take care of you if you start getting hit.

Similarly AoE's gain value under those circumstances since you can rely upon packs. Running Searing Heat in its current form makes me nauseus but even mediocrities like that get better when there's a tank around.

Just take your situation into account when designing your build. For example, if I was soloing with this character, I'd run something like:

Aura of Restoration, Fireball, Phoenix, Lava Font, Firestorm, Energy Drain, Ether Feast, Physical Resistance.

You're guaranteed to be taking damage when soloing, so the slow acting Aura of Restoration is going to net you a ton of life over its duration. Lava Font becomes obvious when you're solo because anything melee is going to be in your face, and you don't lose anything by being right next to the enemy anyway. Physical Resistance is a must have now that it actually expires - you get to pick and choose your battles, so if there aren't Elementalists in a given fight you get to knock a third off of all damage you take for free. Single target nukes aren't nearly as valuable since you're going to be facing 3+ enemies at once, and they'll likely be up in your face - basically a lot of things change and that has to affect how you think about your build. There are no one size fits all characters. =)

Peace,
-CxE

I_Hate_You · Feb 28, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovi the Monk

once u cast a spell u can click more then one in the order u want them to cast. the skill kind of looks like it is moving around and then once the other spell is done castin it goes to that skill, so i could pretty much get this combo off pretty close to prefection using that system. o and since i was talking on a 1 on 1 combat it was not really a slanted scenario. even if u did get your mark on me i could prob hve gotten off gale before u hit me with your first flaming skill, and then id just do what i was going to do, only your attacks would cause catching me on fire. and onto my monk, are u just out of reaalistic things to do with this subject against me to badmouth my avatar, lol. it came from a gwg wallpaper so i guess they made it look like reeves to u, idk but i find that was an incredibly stupid thing to say,

You ignore all of my other points I made to proce your insane slanted scenario., if you would pay attention you would see that. But go ahead and sit there all smug about the uber air elementalist omfgpwns my fire mage because you said so in your made up scenario that goes EXACTLY like you want it to, forget that you arnt playing both characters

and your avatar does look like keanu reeves, do you need a picture comparison or something? And the only thing i think is stupid here is your incessant stating that aeromancer is superior to pyromancer in one and one because you made up a scenario in which it did

Dovi the Monk · Feb 28, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

[COLOR=DarkRed]well then why dont u just give me a build in which you could beat, ill see coming from you is like 1 skill where u say it will own over everything and will kill me, where i actually hve a build for knocking u down and causing damage that would work unless u were a mesmer, so to preove that your fire elem can beat me prove it with more thren one skill and how ull use those to beat me, cause right now ive done that[/COLOR]

Imbalanced · Feb 28, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Ensign,
Yeah, i think i put it a bit too blunt there, it only seems like the way to go in the later missions with a well formed party. It is what i like about Guild Wars, swapping and trying skills depending on the the circumstances. But thanks again because i didn't consider some of those changes (Lava Font, i have it, but because it didn't help much at the moment i got it i left it to collect dust. Physical Resistance... what's that?^^)

Dovi the Monk · Feb 28, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

[COLOR=Blue]Physical Resistance [/COLOR] - For 30-78 seconds, you gain +24 AL against physical damage, but you lose 24-14 AL against elemental damage. (inspiration skill)

10 energy
0 casting time
20 sec recharge

and its a stance

Imbalanced · Feb 28, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Thanks, but i found it out already.

I_Hate_You · Feb 28, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovi the Monk

[COLOR=DarkRed]well then why dont u just give me a build in which you could beat, ill see coming from you is like 1 skill where u say it will own over everything and will kill me, where i actually hve a build for knocking u down and causing damage that would work unless u were a mesmer, so to preove that your fire elem can beat me prove it with more thren one skill and how ull use those to beat me, cause right now ive done that[/COLOR]

Like I said, you can make up scenarios however you want, but when you start forgetting you dont control both characters so you dont know what they are going to do, you lose

Dovi the Monk · Feb 28, 2005, 01:24 AM // 01:24

[COLOR=DarkGreen]what are u talking about, i cant control you because u hvnt given me a grouing of skills you could use to beat mine. so i just took the skill u told me, and told u how that one skill wnt mean u can just win the whole thing with it, which u cant so i just told u how i would beat that.

so back to what i said, until u actually show me a geouping of more then one skill that can counter beat my build, u hve nothing to say, cause obviously ure last post was just some excuse cause u couldnt figure out how to counter my skill grouping

[/COLOR]

Ensign · Feb 28, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Regarding the 'other' half of this thread - I think we can safely say that skills that are designed to attack a single target are much more effective at hitting a single target than area of effect skills. If this concept seems difficult to you, you might want to stick to a game with a more appropriate complexity, like tic-tac-toe.

Now, can we get back to our regularly scheduled discussions that do *not* make my eyes bleed profusely?

Peace,
-CxE